This is just something to keep me occupied for a while. It isn't anything serious (yet). As I said at this months meeting I have a spare G4 server sitting around. Last month I was playing around with the current Ubuntu server. I found some applications which should work as long as the revision level of the software is fine. Which is to say they worked with Ubuntu server but whine and complain about the default revisions on the G4 (OS X 10.4 desktop). It really shouldn't be too difficult to set things up on a Mac... Here is what I've done so far. After a couple of days of reading on the web I found people are suggesting upgrading to 10.5 (out of the question), or updating the software to something close to current. The suggestions are Apache 2.x, MySQL 5.x, and PHP 5.x would be good things to install. The defaults are Apache 1.3, and PHP 4.x. I don't know if MySQL is installed. Oh, and it was suggested Webmin would be good for playing around on a small scale. I tried installing the individual components separately based on what they suggested on the product web sites and had mixed success. Although PHP was in the 5.x range it wasn't near current. Apache 2.x installed but the built in 1.3 wouldn't let it run properly. MySQL just whined. Following some suggestions from the net I looked at a series of programs called MAMP and found the installation to be very easy. All the software it installed was relatively up to date. Everything ran well with a major show stopper. Connecting locally was fine but connecting through the LAN defaulted back to the old software versions. It seems MAMP and another series of programs called XAMPP only want to be run locally as a development environment. There was one web page I found about 20 minutes ago which suggested using Mac Ports to update the software. After getting into the page a little there was a hint I wouldn't have much more in the way of success if I went that route. Oh, I also made sure Personal Web Sharing was turned off in the System Preferences. Now for the request for some advice... If I were running an Intel Mac I would just install a virtual machine with Ubuntu server or something similar and be done with it. Unfortunately the G4 is a PPC and not an Intel box. Does anybody have any advice on where to proceed from here? The Mac Ports idea might be worth a look if I can somehow point the default server away from Apache 1.3 to 2.x. Running MAMP may have some merit since I can change the default port to 80. Unfortunately Webmin wants to run on a different port and defaults back to Apache 1.3. I could install *BSD but I think that's a little more involved than I want to get at this point. Like the problem I was having with PHP last year, it's probably a 10 second fix. The problem is where to apply the fix. ;-) Later Mike
Hi! I don't know if this is much of a help, but you can easily run Linux on a G4 Mac. I'm running it as a personal server at home on an ancient G4 laptop. Debian in particular is particularly apathetic to CPUs, you just put in the CD and install as if it were any other kind of computer, which is why I use it on my PowerPC "personal server" machines... well, also because Debian simply kicks a$$. http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-506-powerpc-... Sorry if this is just ignoring everything you're trying to do, but I figured it was worth a mention. :) - I'm afraid you'll always have problems running the most recent versions of PHP/Apache/MySQL on a PowerPC Mac OS X installation unless you compile them from source, but I'm not sure how problematic that would be on Mac OS X in general. Apple tends to fiddle around a lot with the environment and GCC, often resulting in broken compilations from source, so I'm guessing you're up for a lot of long-term problems sticking to Mac OS 10.4. Long story short, if losing Mac OS X is indeed an option, Debian is definitely the way to go with a PowerPC machine. Hope it helps and apologies if it doesn't. ;) Kind regards, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson helgi@binary.is On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Mike Pfaiffer <high.res.mike@gmail.com>wrote:
This is just something to keep me occupied for a while. It isn't anything serious (yet).
As I said at this months meeting I have a spare G4 server sitting around. Last month I was playing around with the current Ubuntu server. I found some applications which should work as long as the revision level of the software is fine. Which is to say they worked with Ubuntu server but whine and complain about the default revisions on the G4 (OS X 10.4 desktop). It really shouldn't be too difficult to set things up on a Mac...
Here is what I've done so far.
After a couple of days of reading on the web I found people are suggesting upgrading to 10.5 (out of the question), or updating the software to something close to current. The suggestions are Apache 2.x, MySQL 5.x, and PHP 5.x would be good things to install. The defaults are Apache 1.3, and PHP 4.x. I don't know if MySQL is installed. Oh, and it was suggested Webmin would be good for playing around on a small scale.
I tried installing the individual components separately based on what they suggested on the product web sites and had mixed success. Although PHP was in the 5.x range it wasn't near current. Apache 2.x installed but the built in 1.3 wouldn't let it run properly. MySQL just whined.
Following some suggestions from the net I looked at a series of programs called MAMP and found the installation to be very easy. All the software it installed was relatively up to date. Everything ran well with a major show stopper. Connecting locally was fine but connecting through the LAN defaulted back to the old software versions. It seems MAMP and another series of programs called XAMPP only want to be run locally as a development environment.
There was one web page I found about 20 minutes ago which suggested using Mac Ports to update the software. After getting into the page a little there was a hint I wouldn't have much more in the way of success if I went that route.
Oh, I also made sure Personal Web Sharing was turned off in the System Preferences.
Now for the request for some advice...
If I were running an Intel Mac I would just install a virtual machine with Ubuntu server or something similar and be done with it. Unfortunately the G4 is a PPC and not an Intel box.
Does anybody have any advice on where to proceed from here? The Mac Ports idea might be worth a look if I can somehow point the default server away from Apache 1.3 to 2.x. Running MAMP may have some merit since I can change the default port to 80. Unfortunately Webmin wants to run on a different port and defaults back to Apache 1.3. I could install *BSD but I think that's a little more involved than I want to get at this point.
Like the problem I was having with PHP last year, it's probably a 10 second fix. The problem is where to apply the fix. ;-)
Later Mike
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On 10-09-15 03:16 PM, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson wrote:
Hi!
I don't know if this is much of a help, but you can easily run Linux on a G4 Mac. I'm running it as a personal server at home on an ancient G4 laptop. Debian in particular is particularly apathetic to CPUs, you just put in the CD and install as if it were any other kind of computer, which is why I use it on my PowerPC "personal server" machines... well, also because Debian simply kicks a$$.
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-506-powerpc-...
That's an option I will absolutely consider. Since it's a G4 there isn't the problem with "new world" vs "old world" Macs. I didn't think it would be that easy.
Sorry if this is just ignoring everything you're trying to do, but I figured it was worth a mention. :) - I'm afraid you'll always have problems running the most recent versions of PHP/Apache/MySQL on a PowerPC Mac OS X installation unless you compile them from source, but I'm not sure how problematic that would be on Mac OS X in general. Apple tends to fiddle around a lot with the environment and GCC, often resulting in broken compilations from source, so I'm guessing you're up for a lot of long-term problems sticking to Mac OS 10.4.
I was able to compile some software on my Mac Mini. So compilation is a possibility.
Long story short, if losing Mac OS X is indeed an option, Debian is definitely the way to go with a PowerPC machine.
I'm not really set on OS X but I'd like to see if I can exhaust the most reasonable possibilities first. You know how these things are... I am eventually going to be asked how to do it that way. With Debian I can apt-get install from source.
Hope it helps and apologies if it doesn't. ;)
It does. I suspect this is what I am most likely to do in the end. If not on this machine then certainly on another.
Kind regards, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson helgi@binary.is
Later Mike
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Mike Pfaiffer<high.res.mike@gmail.com>wrote:
This is just something to keep me occupied for a while. It isn't anything serious (yet).
As I said at this months meeting I have a spare G4 server sitting around. Last month I was playing around with the current Ubuntu server. I found some applications which should work as long as the revision level of the software is fine. Which is to say they worked with Ubuntu server but whine and complain about the default revisions on the G4 (OS X 10.4 desktop). It really shouldn't be too difficult to set things up on a Mac...
Here is what I've done so far.
After a couple of days of reading on the web I found people are suggesting upgrading to 10.5 (out of the question), or updating the software to something close to current. The suggestions are Apache 2.x, MySQL 5.x, and PHP 5.x would be good things to install. The defaults are Apache 1.3, and PHP 4.x. I don't know if MySQL is installed. Oh, and it was suggested Webmin would be good for playing around on a small scale.
I tried installing the individual components separately based on what they suggested on the product web sites and had mixed success. Although PHP was in the 5.x range it wasn't near current. Apache 2.x installed but the built in 1.3 wouldn't let it run properly. MySQL just whined.
Following some suggestions from the net I looked at a series of programs called MAMP and found the installation to be very easy. All the software it installed was relatively up to date. Everything ran well with a major show stopper. Connecting locally was fine but connecting through the LAN defaulted back to the old software versions. It seems MAMP and another series of programs called XAMPP only want to be run locally as a development environment.
There was one web page I found about 20 minutes ago which suggested using Mac Ports to update the software. After getting into the page a little there was a hint I wouldn't have much more in the way of success if I went that route.
Oh, I also made sure Personal Web Sharing was turned off in the System Preferences.
Now for the request for some advice...
If I were running an Intel Mac I would just install a virtual machine with Ubuntu server or something similar and be done with it. Unfortunately the G4 is a PPC and not an Intel box.
Does anybody have any advice on where to proceed from here? The Mac Ports idea might be worth a look if I can somehow point the default server away from Apache 1.3 to 2.x. Running MAMP may have some merit since I can change the default port to 80. Unfortunately Webmin wants to run on a different port and defaults back to Apache 1.3. I could install *BSD but I think that's a little more involved than I want to get at this point.
Like the problem I was having with PHP last year, it's probably a 10 second fix. The problem is where to apply the fix. ;-)
Later Mike
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Hi Mike The curse of *nix users everywhere is dependency hell, and I've had my share. I have not done what you're trying to do, but I would second Peter's suggestion to use MacPorts or Fink. I have installed several *nix things on my Mac, the most recent being GnuPlot on Snow Leopard. Being a slow learner, I spent a couple hours duplicating what someone at a web site had done (I'm sure with a different Mac OS and different vintage software) using install and make to compile the dependencies from zipped sources. When it failed, I used MacPorts, and had it running within minutes. Darwin does some weird stuff with some of the dependencies. A long time ago I had similar experiences with Suse and Red Hat. If the package manager (in your case MacPorts or Fink) does not have a port for the software you're looking for (and MacPorts has a lot), at least install as many dependencies as you can from the package manager before you go to the direct compilation route. -Dan On 2010-09-15, at 4:49 PM, Mike Pfaiffer wrote:
On 10-09-15 03:16 PM, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson wrote:
Hi!
I don't know if this is much of a help, but you can easily run Linux on a G4 Mac. I'm running it as a personal server at home on an ancient G4 laptop. Debian in particular is particularly apathetic to CPUs, you just put in the CD and install as if it were any other kind of computer, which is why I use it on my PowerPC "personal server" machines... well, also because Debian simply kicks a$$.
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-506-powerpc-...
That's an option I will absolutely consider. Since it's a G4 there isn't the problem with "new world" vs "old world" Macs. I didn't think it would be that easy.
Sorry if this is just ignoring everything you're trying to do, but I figured it was worth a mention. :) - I'm afraid you'll always have problems running the most recent versions of PHP/Apache/MySQL on a PowerPC Mac OS X installation unless you compile them from source, but I'm not sure how problematic that would be on Mac OS X in general. Apple tends to fiddle around a lot with the environment and GCC, often resulting in broken compilations from source, so I'm guessing you're up for a lot of long-term problems sticking to Mac OS 10.4.
I was able to compile some software on my Mac Mini. So compilation is a possibility.
Long story short, if losing Mac OS X is indeed an option, Debian is definitely the way to go with a PowerPC machine.
I'm not really set on OS X but I'd like to see if I can exhaust the most reasonable possibilities first. You know how these things are... I am eventually going to be asked how to do it that way.
With Debian I can apt-get install from source.
Hope it helps and apologies if it doesn't. ;)
It does. I suspect this is what I am most likely to do in the end. If not on this machine then certainly on another.
Kind regards, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson helgi@binary.is
Later Mike
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Mike Pfaiffer<high.res.mike@gmail.com>wrote:
This is just something to keep me occupied for a while. It isn't anything serious (yet).
As I said at this months meeting I have a spare G4 server sitting around. Last month I was playing around with the current Ubuntu server. I found some applications which should work as long as the revision level of the software is fine. Which is to say they worked with Ubuntu server but whine and complain about the default revisions on the G4 (OS X 10.4 desktop). It really shouldn't be too difficult to set things up on a Mac...
Here is what I've done so far.
After a couple of days of reading on the web I found people are suggesting upgrading to 10.5 (out of the question), or updating the software to something close to current. The suggestions are Apache 2.x, MySQL 5.x, and PHP 5.x would be good things to install. The defaults are Apache 1.3, and PHP 4.x. I don't know if MySQL is installed. Oh, and it was suggested Webmin would be good for playing around on a small scale.
I tried installing the individual components separately based on what they suggested on the product web sites and had mixed success. Although PHP was in the 5.x range it wasn't near current. Apache 2.x installed but the built in 1.3 wouldn't let it run properly. MySQL just whined.
Following some suggestions from the net I looked at a series of programs called MAMP and found the installation to be very easy. All the software it installed was relatively up to date. Everything ran well with a major show stopper. Connecting locally was fine but connecting through the LAN defaulted back to the old software versions. It seems MAMP and another series of programs called XAMPP only want to be run locally as a development environment.
There was one web page I found about 20 minutes ago which suggested using Mac Ports to update the software. After getting into the page a little there was a hint I wouldn't have much more in the way of success if I went that route.
Oh, I also made sure Personal Web Sharing was turned off in the System Preferences.
Now for the request for some advice...
If I were running an Intel Mac I would just install a virtual machine with Ubuntu server or something similar and be done with it. Unfortunately the G4 is a PPC and not an Intel box.
Does anybody have any advice on where to proceed from here? The Mac Ports idea might be worth a look if I can somehow point the default server away from Apache 1.3 to 2.x. Running MAMP may have some merit since I can change the default port to 80. Unfortunately Webmin wants to run on a different port and defaults back to Apache 1.3. I could install *BSD but I think that's a little more involved than I want to get at this point.
Like the problem I was having with PHP last year, it's probably a 10 second fix. The problem is where to apply the fix. ;-)
Later Mike
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Dan Martin GP Hospital Practitioner Computer Scientist ummar143@shaw.ca (204) 831-1746 answering machine always on
If you're looking for something to do, Mike, I still need help getting my Windows ME machine to log onto Ubuntu server 9 using an authentication key. As I said before, I downloaded and installed WinSCP on my Windows ME machine, and have SSH on the Ubuntu server. No matter if I generate the keys on the Ubutu server, or with WinSCP, the server rejects the authentication key. This is so I can have tight security on the web server, while physically locating it at a remote site with a high speed internet connection while managing it from my home office. Rob Dyck
On 10-09-15 05:40 PM, Robert Dyck wrote:
If you're looking for something to do, Mike, I still need help getting my Windows ME machine to log onto Ubuntu server 9 using an authentication key. As I said before, I downloaded and installed WinSCP on my Windows ME machine, and have SSH on the Ubuntu server. No matter if I generate the keys on the Ubutu server, or with WinSCP, the server rejects the authentication key. This is so I can have tight security on the web server, while physically locating it at a remote site with a high speed internet connection while managing it from my home office.
Rob Dyck
I've been thinking about that. I guess the links I sent didn't help... Did you and Lindsay say you missed your messages with the links from a month ago? I could re-send them if you can't find the message. Just to be thorough, dig out your Mac and go into your hard drive --> Applications --> Utilities and run Terminal (you may also want to put this on your dashboard). Do an ssh to your server from there. If you can then go into your System Preferences --> Sharing --> Services (tab) and enable Remote Login. This enables you to ssh into your Mac. Try going the other way from your Ubuntu box to the Mac. Then from your ME box to the Mac. This way we can determine if it is a problem with ssh, the Ubuntu box, or the ME box. I think your guess about the key is the issue. I'd like to be sure we aren't chasing down a different problem first. The thing is if it works on the Mac and not the ME box then we can be pretty sure the problem isn't with your procedures. If it doesn't work with either machine then that's another story. Another thing to try is a program called putty. As I recall it is kind of like cygwin in that it can provide you with an ssh terminal (as well as other useful utilities for the *NIX world). I think scp is more of a file transfer program. If the keys aren't already working before running scp I don't know if it will work. This is why you may want to try using an ssh terminal first. I'm not an ssh expert. The only thing I've done with it lately is to open a remote shell on a different computer. I wonder if it would be worth while to ask if someone could do a "Sesame Street" level, hands on demo for the MWCS in October (the MUUG folks are always welcome to join us in St. James). Maybe as part of the hands on part we could see what can be done with your machines. Before that we have to be sure of the exact problem. Later Mike
On 10-09-15 05:14 PM, Dan Martin wrote:
Hi Mike
The curse of *nix users everywhere is dependency hell, and I've had my share.
Yup. Me too. Especially in the early days of Red Hat (pre-enterprise).
I have not done what you're trying to do, but I would second Peter's suggestion to use MacPorts or Fink.
My response to him didn't make it to the mailing list. He also said the software was already installed with MAMP. A couple of minutes ago I realised I didn't check out the web server without going through the default port for Webmin. I tried it and found it was bringing up the old Apache 1.3 web page (or does it... - Hmm). Anyhow, if I add /MAMP/ to the end of the system address it brings up what MAMP considers to be the default system page. phpinfo() shows everything up and running properly. I ought to give it a try at the system level and see if it works there too... My experience with MacPorts has been pretty good on a different Mac. It only failed once.
I have installed several *nix things on my Mac, the most recent being GnuPlot on Snow Leopard. Being a slow learner, I spent a couple hours duplicating what someone at a web site had done (I'm sure with a different Mac OS and different vintage software) using install and make to compile the dependencies from zipped sources.
Depending on what I find out I may consider using MacPorts to update the software I want.
When it failed, I used MacPorts, and had it running within minutes. Darwin does some weird stuff with some of the dependencies.
I installed a couple of packages on a Mac Mini. The dependencies made the compile take a couple of hours. Also considering this is a G4 it may take a while for all this too...
A long time ago I had similar experiences with Suse and Red Hat. If the package manager (in your case MacPorts or Fink) does not have a port for the software you're looking for (and MacPorts has a lot), at least install as many dependencies as you can from the package manager before you go to the direct compilation route.
I'm pretty sure MacPorts has the software I want. The question is how to replace the default which comes from Apple. Particularly Apache. Then again I may already have solved my own problem (minus Webmin) and not realise it.
-Dan
Later Mike P.S. Sorry I didn't say hi last night. It's just I've been getting REALLY tired over the last few years and things don't seem to come to the front of my mind the way they used to.
On 2010-09-15, at 4:49 PM, Mike Pfaiffer wrote:
On 10-09-15 03:16 PM, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson wrote:
Hi!
I don't know if this is much of a help, but you can easily run Linux on a G4 Mac. I'm running it as a personal server at home on an ancient G4 laptop. Debian in particular is particularly apathetic to CPUs, you just put in the CD and install as if it were any other kind of computer, which is why I use it on my PowerPC "personal server" machines... well, also because Debian simply kicks a$$.
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-506-powerpc-...
That's an option I will absolutely consider. Since it's a G4 there
isn't the problem with "new world" vs "old world" Macs. I didn't think it would be that easy.
Sorry if this is just ignoring everything you're trying to do, but I figured it was worth a mention. :) - I'm afraid you'll always have problems running the most recent versions of PHP/Apache/MySQL on a PowerPC Mac OS X installation unless you compile them from source, but I'm not sure how problematic that would be on Mac OS X in general. Apple tends to fiddle around a lot with the environment and GCC, often resulting in broken compilations from source, so I'm guessing you're up for a lot of long-term problems sticking to Mac OS 10.4.
I was able to compile some software on my Mac Mini. So compilation is a possibility.
Long story short, if losing Mac OS X is indeed an option, Debian is definitely the way to go with a PowerPC machine.
I'm not really set on OS X but I'd like to see if I can exhaust the most reasonable possibilities first. You know how these things are... I am eventually going to be asked how to do it that way.
With Debian I can apt-get install from source.
Hope it helps and apologies if it doesn't. ;)
It does. I suspect this is what I am most likely to do in the end. If not on this machine then certainly on another.
Kind regards, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson helgi@binary.is
Later Mike
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Mike Pfaiffer<high.res.mike@gmail.com>wrote:
This is just something to keep me occupied for a while. It isn't anything serious (yet).
As I said at this months meeting I have a spare G4 server sitting around. Last month I was playing around with the current Ubuntu server. I found some applications which should work as long as the revision level of the software is fine. Which is to say they worked with Ubuntu server but whine and complain about the default revisions on the G4 (OS X 10.4 desktop). It really shouldn't be too difficult to set things up on a Mac...
Here is what I've done so far.
After a couple of days of reading on the web I found people are suggesting upgrading to 10.5 (out of the question), or updating the software to something close to current. The suggestions are Apache 2.x, MySQL 5.x, and PHP 5.x would be good things to install. The defaults are Apache 1.3, and PHP 4.x. I don't know if MySQL is installed. Oh, and it was suggested Webmin would be good for playing around on a small scale.
I tried installing the individual components separately based on what they suggested on the product web sites and had mixed success. Although PHP was in the 5.x range it wasn't near current. Apache 2.x installed but the built in 1.3 wouldn't let it run properly. MySQL just whined.
Following some suggestions from the net I looked at a series of programs called MAMP and found the installation to be very easy. All the software it installed was relatively up to date. Everything ran well with a major show stopper. Connecting locally was fine but connecting through the LAN defaulted back to the old software versions. It seems MAMP and another series of programs called XAMPP only want to be run locally as a development environment.
There was one web page I found about 20 minutes ago which suggested using Mac Ports to update the software. After getting into the page a little there was a hint I wouldn't have much more in the way of success if I went that route.
Oh, I also made sure Personal Web Sharing was turned off in the System Preferences.
Now for the request for some advice...
If I were running an Intel Mac I would just install a virtual machine with Ubuntu server or something similar and be done with it. Unfortunately the G4 is a PPC and not an Intel box.
Does anybody have any advice on where to proceed from here? The Mac Ports idea might be worth a look if I can somehow point the default server away from Apache 1.3 to 2.x. Running MAMP may have some merit since I can change the default port to 80. Unfortunately Webmin wants to run on a different port and defaults back to Apache 1.3. I could install *BSD but I think that's a little more involved than I want to get at this point.
Like the problem I was having with PHP last year, it's probably a 10 second fix. The problem is where to apply the fix. ;-)
Later Mike
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Dan Martin GP Hospital Practitioner Computer Scientist ummar143@shaw.ca (204) 831-1746 answering machine always on
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On 09/15/2010 02:56 PM, Mike Pfaiffer wrote:
Now for the request for some advice...
If I were running an Intel Mac I would just install a virtual machine with Ubuntu server or something similar and be done with it. Unfortunately the G4 is a PPC and not an Intel box.
Does anybody have any advice on where to proceed from here? The Mac Ports idea might be worth a look if I can somehow point the default server away from Apache 1.3 to 2.x. Running MAMP may have some merit since I can change the default port to 80. Unfortunately Webmin wants to run on a different port and defaults back to Apache 1.3. I could install *BSD but I think that's a little more involved than I want to get at this point.
You can try macports, fink or homebrew to install it, all of them will compile the whole shebang on your machine, but the MAMP bundle that you downloaded already has a standard apache, mysql and php. You should be able to edit the ports by clicking on MAMP.app Preferences... Ports and changing apache to 80 and mysql to 3306. You can also just edit the conf files in /Applications/MAMP/conf. You can start and stop mysql and apache from the command line with: sudo /Applications/MAMP/bin/startApache.sh etc. Peter http://macports.org http://finkproject.org http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/
participants (5)
-
Dan Martin -
Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson -
Mike Pfaiffer -
Peter O'Gorman -
Robert Dyck